In examining your work with cinematographer Miyajima
for this rerelease of the 1962 masterpiece Seppuku,
one could say it defined your aesthetic style as a director
and Miyajima's style as a cinematographer.
The sensibility you both share for tragedy in any era
really comes to life on the big screen.
With the struggles after 1960's AMPO Security Treaty revision
and an unstable political climate in Japan,
there was a sense of despair that politics couldn't save humanity.
In the scene where the ronin Chijiiwa comes to a tragic end,
it felt as if the director was the one in the sword fight.
What an impression that last scene had on me!
Yes, it was -
I think that was one of my most weighty films.
It also crystallized my aesthetic consciousness,
and I feel my mentor, Yaichi Aizu, certainly played a large role in that.
It seems your innate sense and vision as a director
and your worldview all came together here.
Especially that house,
when he enters the house of the lyi Clan.
You created those fantastic gates.
That aesthetic world created by those gates is spectacular,
something not seen since the days of Kenji Mizoguchi.
Art direction was by Junichi Ozumi and Shigemasa Toda -
a powerhouse of artistic talent.
In a sense, Toda's career as art director really took off after this film.
He worked as an assistant on The Human Condition,
and then as art director on The Inheritance and Seppuku.
Another thing about this film,
aside from the acting talents of Tatsuya Nakadai,
is composer Toru Takemitsu's arrival on the film music scene.
I think he made quite an impact.
Quite a gathering of talent.
You think so?
Yes, I'm truly amazed at the stellar lineup of talent we had.
It seemed a perfect ensemble of talent for the content of the film.
Indeed, along with the script by Shinobu Hashimoto.
What an ensemble. Perhaps only direction was lacking.
Nonsense!
In speaking with Takemitsu about composing for this film,
I've heard him mention the difficulties he faced in the creative process.
In the scene where the ronin, played by Nakadai,
opens the sliding door and sits down,
the film called for dramatic and exciting music.
He wanted to score that moment, but it was only 15 seconds long.
He felt he needed a 15-second piece of music.
Using a conventional western musical style,
it would be very difficult to fill that moment.
So he introduced the traditional and commanding sound of the biwa.
That moment gave me shivers.
Yes, that made quite an impact.
It seems the sound made quite an impression
on other directors at the studios in Uzumasa.
Period pieces of the time were divided into those by Kenji Mizoguchi
and Sadao Yamanaka,
or those period-action pieces by lssei Mori and Hiroshi Inagaki,
but this particular film brought about a new style
that didn't fall into either of those camps.
I think Kurosawa was filming Sanjuro or Yojimbo at the time,
so I wanted to do something different.
In a sense, I was challenging him.
Later, Kinoshita often said that's indeed what I did.
Kinoshita really hated the script.
He thought it was too cruel, unsuitable for the public.
He didn't even watch it.
And you know the "daddy" of Roppongi?
The other day, on the first anniversary of his death,
someone tapped me on the shoulder - it was Kinoshita.
He said, "l finally saw it on TV yesterday.
What a great film!"
Kinoshita has always said a film is a condensation of life.
I'm sure he felt showing life so realistically and gruesomely was unacceptable.
Honestly, when I watched lshihama commit suicide with that bamboo sword,
I felt like the director would win out if I turned away.
I heard it caused quite a controversy when it screened at Cannes.
I wouldn't be surprised if some people fainted.
Yes, there was quite a bit of whistling -
And booing?
But as the humanity of Nakadai's character was revealed,
it turned to applause.
Of course, it became a point of discussion in subsequent interviews -
whether it was good or bad.
The journalists seemed to argue over it, and it was quite a spectacle.
You know, the end of human life
had been portrayed in many ways,
but the manner of death portrayed in this film
really gives weight to life itself.
Even the philosophy department at your alma mater
doesn't go into such depth about life and death.
It really was a vision unique to your work as a director.
My fundamental aesthetic is really driven by the influence
of Kinoshita and Yaichi Aizu,
so whenever I shoot a film, I'm always conscious of that.
I aimed to make films that would make one or the other of them say,
"You did a good job."
You really paid attention to every detail,
such as how much of the sliding door to fit in the frame.
And the roof tiles.
It was truly an enthralling film.
A bit cruel, but captivating nonetheless.
You know the scene where he stabs himself with the bamboo sword?
I couldn't find an approach that would work.
I rarely drink, but one night I went out drinking,
and upon returning home drunk, it became clear to me.
If I have him collapse over the blade, that will make it work.
That became the foundation for that whole scene to work.
Miyajima has seen my sober ideas and my drunk ideas
and claims my drunk ideas are much better.
And that's how that cruel scene came about.
Miyajima's camera work is unusually gruesome.
That guy loves cruelty!
But what really saved that cruelty was Takemitsu's music.
The clarity of it.
The sound of the biwa during the seppuku scene
really made it mournful. It really saved the scene.
Takemitsu seemed to find a way
to get traditional Japanese instruments to coexist with Western music.
The tone and scale of the biwa
are quite different from those of Western instruments.
I think it was quite a challenge to make them work together musically.
Yes, I think so.
In that sense, I think it was quite a defining moment for the film.
In watching the dailies,
I think he took into account the tone of the imagery,
along with the demeanor of the characters,
and he was inspired to use that instrument at that moment.